Eupedia / Maciamo : Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25163

The ancient Egyptians: Based on the modern population of Egypt, and removing the foreign elements, it is reasonable to assume that the ancient Egyptians belonged primarily to haplogroups E1b1b and T. Nowadays about half of the Egyptian paternal lines could be descended from invaders, notably from the Arabic peninsula (hg J1, about 1/3 of the population), but also from Greece, Anatolia and Persia.

The ancient Slavs: Present-day Eastern Slavs are descended from the ancient Kurgan culture of the Eurasian steppes. The Scythians were the branch of R1a that remained in the steppes of from whom modern Russians are descended (along with other haplogroups). Slavic Europeans belonged to haplogroup R1a and I2. Southern Slavs have a much higher proportion of I2 (notably in the Croatia). Eastern Europeans from the Danubian basin and the Balkans have also inherited a sizeable percentage of haplogroup E (and some G and T) from the expansion Neolithic farmers that started from northern Greece 7,000 years ago (Linear Pottery culture).

Ancient Anatolians: Southern Anatolia was colonised early by Neolithic farmers from the Near East (E + J2). The Indo-European invasions brought the Hittites (1750 BCE), the Lydians and Lycians (1450 BCE) and the Proto-Armenians (1200 BCE). All were probably R1b, considering the high percentage of R1b in the regions they settled. R1b Indo-Europeans are thought to have originated on the north-eastern shores of the Black Sea, just north of the Caucasus. They could have invaded northern Anatolia by crossing the Caucasus, sailing across the sea, or going around via the steppes through the Bosphorus.
Later R1b were possibly (part of) the Sea Peoples that ravaged the ancient Near Eastern civilizations, from Greece to Egypt. Their advance military technology and sea-based culture make of them very good candidates.
The Phrygians arrived in northern Anatolia after 1200 BCE, and were probably an offshoot from the Thracians (so R1a).
The Cimmerians are probably the last wave of migration (around 700 BCE) from the R1b homeland. They are said to have be expelled from Anatolia and moved to Europe, where they joined the other R1b people. Germanic and Celtic people both claim (partial) Cimmerian ancestry.

Turkic languages originated in Mongolia nearly 2000 years ago. Turkish people are mostly descendants of the ancient Anatolian population. Turkish culture is a melting pot that has absorbed Central Asian, Middle Eastern and European (especially Greek) cultural elements.

The ancient proto-Germanic people: The three main haplogroups associated with Germanic people are I1, I2b1 and R1b-U106. The latter is an old pre-Celtic branch of R1b mostly found around Frisia. These people are thought to have mixed with I1 people to form the ancient Germanic culture. In Scandinavia R1a is also quite common, although its presence could have predated a Germanic expansion from northern Germany, Denmark and southern Sweden.

Romans, Celts and Germans: Celtic, Italic and Germanic people are all descended from the same R1b1b2 stock. They split north of the Alps.
The Italic branch went south and mixed with the Terramare people who were I2a, G2a and E-V13. Northern Italians have more Indo-European Celto-Italic blood, while southern Italian have more indigenous blood (the highest being Sardinia, then Basilicata).
The Germanic branch moved north and mixed with the indigenous I1 and I2b people, who had already mixed with R1a migrants from the Corded Ware (Battle Axe) culture. The new hybrid Germanic people retained the highest percentage of aboriginal haplogroup I.
Celtic people split in several groups : the Brythonic went to Britain and Ireland, the Gaulish to France, the Iberian to Spain and Portugal, and the Alpine remained around Austria, Switzerland, southern Germany, Eastern France and Belgium. The Iberian and Gaulish groups mixed with I2b, I2a and E people, the Alpine with I2b and E, and the Brythonic just with I2b people.
It is likely that the language of the aboriginal Europeans influenced the various Celtic, Italic and Germanic dialects. Germanic languages diverted the most from the original European R1b language because it assimilated a very large part of aborigines.
From about 700 BCE, the Etruscans settled around Tuscany and the Greeks in southern Italy. Etruscans probably came from Palestine and brought haplogroups J1, J2 and E with them. The Greeks in Italy were Doric and brought J2, E, G2a and probably more R1b (see above). The Romans progressively absorbed the Etruscans and Italian Greeks and mixed with them. By the time of Julius Caesar Roman citizens were probably composed of 45% of R1b, 20% of J, 15% of E, 15% of G2a and 5% of I2a.

hpgr

Ancient Greeks : Pelasgians (pre-Minoan Greeks, or Helladic Greeks) belonged to an admixture of I, E-V13, T and G2a. E-V13 and T probably arrived in Greece from the Levant (and ultimately from Egypt, hence the small percentage of T) in the early Neolithic, 8,500 years ago. G2a came from the Caucasus approximately 6,000 years ago as herders of sheep and goats (and early miners ?).
Minoan Greeks migrated from Mesopotamia via Anatolia. They were mostly J2 people, but probably had some E too.
Mycenaean
Greeks arrived around 3,600 years ago from the Ukrainian steppes. They were an Indo-European people belonging to R1a. So were the Macedonians and the Thracians (hence the higher density of R1a in northern Greece).
Greece was invaded by the Dorians around 1200 BCE. Nobody knows who they were or where they came from, but the high percentage of R1b in the regions where they settled (Peloponese, Crete) strongly suggest that they were R1b people. The events are linked to the Sea Peoples (see below), who were probably R1b people from the north-east of the Black Sea, or early Celts from central Europe.
Greek historians sometimes mention that the Dorians were the descendants of the Trojans who came back to avenge their ancestors. The Trojans were an Indo-European people related to the R1b Hittites (see below). This would also explain why there is about the same percentage of R1b and R1a in modern Greece. Each correspond to a different wave of Indo-European invader. They only make up 12% of the population (each) because the Neolithic farmers (especially E and J2) were already well-established and numerous by that time.

By definition, the Pelasgians are the autochthonous, native inhabitants of Mesolithic Greece. They did not speak Greek, but their language may have contributed to a few loan words in ancient Greek. Modern Greece is a melting pot. The Pelasgians were first there probably haplogroup I2, then came early farmers from the Near East (E1b1b and J2), herders from the Caucasus and Anatolia (G2), then the Mycenaeans (I would think R1a), the Dorians (possibly R1b) and others. Ancient Greek language and religion is surely an admixture of all this, although the Indo-European component is stronger than the rest. I suppose that this is because the Mycenaeans and Dorians were the last invaders, whose language and culture eventually stuck, after some adaptation to local idiosyncrasies.

The Hungarians : Modern Hungarians are virtually undistinguishable from their Austrian and Slovak neighbours in terms of Y-chromosome haplogroups. But Hungary is a notoriously difficult country for Y-DNA proportions. Percentages tend to vary widely from one study to another, depending on the regional populations sampled. Some studies have found over 60% of R1a in Hungary, although the average if half that figure. Some villages have a small percentage of CentralNorth Asian haplogroups N, Q or C, but they are otherwise quite rare. Interestingly neighbouring countries like Austria, Slovakia and Ukraine appear to have more C, Q and N than Hungary.

Hungary has a peculiar history due to its geography – a vast plain surrounded by mountains on every side (the Alps and the Carpathians). In Neolithic times, it was at the centre of the Danubian cultures, which was composed of I2 hunter-gatherers (soon converted to farming) and E-V13 farmers from Thessaly. Then came the Slavic invasion (around 3,000 BCE), followed by the Proto-Italo-Celts and Alpine Celts (2,000 BCE to 200 BCE), who brought respectively R1a and R1b to the region.

Hungary was named after the Huns, who invaded Europe from 370 CE and partly settled in the Pannonian plain (now known as Hungarian plain). It isn’t sure where the Huns came from, but it is generally believed that they descended from the Xiongnu peoples of Mongolia. They were a confederation and included various ethnic group under Hunnic leadership. It is likely that ‘Huns’ were many R1a peoples, e.g. Scythians, from the Eurasian Steppe. The Huns themselves may have been an admixture of haplogroup Q and C. However less than 2% of the modern population belong to Q and C combined.

The Avar khaganane was centered in and around the present-day Hungarian city of Debrecen and their presence in the Carpathian Basin lasted several centuries until 800 AD. The presence of the Huns, even when compared with that of Avars, was insignificant in terms of the time spent there. The territory was called Pannonia since the Roman times and long after the fall of the empire. The name Hungary is much younger and comes from the word On Ogur the Bulgarians gave to the 10 (?) Asian tribes that invaded the Carpathian Basin in 896 AD. As for the Mongol invasion of 1242, it lasted only 1 or 2 years, which is too short, in my opinion, to leave any genetic trace in the population, though I agree that the country, especially the plains probably inhabited by the Magyars, was almost depopulated. The highlands Romania, Slovakia, offered better refuge to the locals Vlachs, Slavs, so their population was largely preserved. The Avars were steppe people from Central Asia, so they must have been predominantly R1a, with maybe some J2, R1b and/or C3.

The next invaders were the Magyar, a Finno-Ugric people who arrived in Europe in the 9th century, and settled in Hungary in the 10th. Hungarian language is actually a descendant of Magyar, not Hunnic, despite the misleading name in “Hun-“. The Magyar came from Central Asia, and are related to the modern Bashkirs of Russia.

According to paper by Russian geneticists – “Structure of gene pool of Bashkir subpopulations” Bashkirs have (N=471) 47% R1b (35% R1b1b2, 13% R1b1b1), 26% R1a1, 17% N1c, C haplogroup occurs in only 2.3% of Bashkir sample. The Bashkirs were conquered by the Mongols, which may account for all the haplogroup C. In fact, the presence of C in Europe is usually attributed exclusively to the Mongols, and C is almost non-existent in Hungary anyway. There are significant differences in haplogroup frequencies between subpopulations of Bashkirs. This indicate that each could have a different origin. I managed to find the original study by Lobov et al. (in Russian only). Indeed the percentages vary widely according to the subpopulation. the Bashkirs total is 17% of N1c, 26% of R1a, 13% of R1b1b1, 35% of R1b1b2. R1b1b2 (M269) is much more common the Baymaksky district of Bashkortostan (81%) and the Perm region (84%), but otherwise osciliates between 7% and 23%. R1b1b1 (M73) reaches an amazing 55% in the Abzelilovsky district, but otherwise does not exceed 2%. N1c is very high in East Orenburg (65%) and Sterlibashevsky (54%), moderate in Samara & Saratov (20%) and low elsewhere (3% to 7%). Samara & Saratov is the only Bashkir region with a reasonable amount of haplogroup C (17%) and O (6%). But overall it is R1a that is the most common, reaching 38% in Sterlibashevsky district, 40% in West Orenburg, and 48% in Saratov & Samara.

A study compared the Y-chromosome of the Madjar tribe from Kazakhstan to the Magyars of Hungary, and found that some G lineages were related. The article doesn’t specify the subcalde, but G1 is the dominant strain in Kazakhstan, and is also found in Hungary (but normally not elsewhere in Europe).

Another study compared the Y-DNA of Hungarians with other Finno-Ugric-speaking populations in order to understand why modern Hungarians have so little of the typical Uralic haplogroup N1c. They tested a few individuals from a 10th-century cemetery found out that half of the individuals belonged to N1c. The sample was small, and maybe “pure” Magyar, but it nonetheless suggests that the original Magyar had much more N1c than modern Hungarians.

The Magyar population is thought to have suffered considerably from the 13th-century Mongol invasion of Europe, and from the 16th-century war against the Ottomans. From all this can be deduced that the original Magyars were an admixture of N1c and R1a (predominant), with some G1, and maybe some R1b. As haplogroup Q is neither associated with the Magyars not with the Mongols, it must be either be of Hunnic origin, or from other Asian tribes part of the various invaders from the steppes.

JPtoEurope The first “steppe peoples” in Eurasia are not Asiatics (racially speaking), but are the Europeans peoples (always racially speaking). The lasts representative of those Europeans peoples in the Eurasia steppes, are the Scythes. The first main people to have reversed this West > East flow in the Eurasia steppe in East > West flow, is a people interbreeding between Europeans and Asiatics… named the Turcs. And more recently and after 1400 years of Asiatics (turko-mongolians) domination in steppes, the flow is again reversed West to the East, for the Europeans, about the seventeenth century, with the Russian conquests, right down Pacific.

According to anthropologist David Anthony in his book The Horse, The Wheel, and Language, steppe people of the Bug-Dniester and later Yamna culture were all low-skulled, very wide-faced Proto-Europoids (mixed European and Mongoloid traits). He also mentions that the early Yamna settlers in the Danube basin (3000-2600 BCE), in places like Bulgaria, Serbia and Hungary, were still the same Proto-Europoids, contrasting neatly with the gracile, high-skulled and narrow-faced people of “Old Europe”. David Anthony is a well-respected specialist of Indo-European archaeology. As he is first and foremost a professor of anthropology, there is no doubt he can recognise anthropological features from skeletons.

LeBrok Hungary is predominantly R1a and they don’t speak Slavic. They speak Magyar that came, I guess, with N, but N now is negligible in Hungary.

how yes no Serbs are supposed to be Slavic tribe, but they have very little R1a (14.5%)

Macedonia_and_the_Aegean_World_c.200[5]

DejaVu E1b1b – Albania: 21.6% & 25.5% (2 tests), -Kosovo: 47.4%,  -Greece: 20.8%, 23.8% & 31.6% (3 tests), -Macedonia (FYROM): 24.1%, -Bulgaria: 20.7%, -Serbia: 21.2%, -Egypt: 43.5%. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is also noted by Plutarch inTheseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii.402ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes in Europe. Pausanias, noted that “The Arcadians make mention of Pelasgus as the first person who existed in their country. From this king the whole region took the name Pilasgia”. Hopper noted that the Pelasgians founded Attica. The earliest Greek alphabet was made by the Pelasgians, it was lost and later reintroduced by Kadmus to Boeotia. Another Pelasgian, Evander of Arcadia introduced writing to the Italians. This script was used to make the first fifteen characters of the Latin script according to Pliny and Plutarch. The Egyptians established many colonies in ancient Europe. The Egyptians were also called Danaans in Greek history. By 1200 BC, much of the Mycenae civilization was under the control the Achaeans. The Achaeans later founded other city-states in Greece. After conquering the Mycenaeans, the Achaeans formed the Greek states of Peloponnesus. Their major cities: Mycenae and Tiryns in Argolis, and Pylos Messenia were originally founded by other Pelasgian groups.

The ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, geographers, and orators, speak of the Macedonians as distinct nation, separate from their Greek, Thracian, and Illyrian neighbors. They are clear that Macedonia was never part of Greece and that the Macedonians conquered Greece, Thrace, and Illyria, and kept the Greeks, Thracians, and Illyrians enslaved, until Rome defeated the Macedonian armies and turned the country into its first province in 168 BC. The assertion of those modern historians that propagate that the Macedonians “were Greeks” which have “united” Greece, is absurd and is completely unsupported by the words of the ancients who clearly considered Greece subjected by the Macedonian foreigners. The Macedonians garrisoned the Greek cities (like the Thracian and Illyrian cities) to enforce their occupation, and later used the Greeks (along with equal numbers of the Thracians and Illyrians) for their conquest of Persia. The ancient Greeks did not regard the Macedonians as Greeks, nor the Macedonians regarded themselves to be Greek. They were proud of their Macedonian nationality and way of life, and looked down upon the Greeks and with contempt. The Greeks called them barbarians, along with the Persians, Illyrians, and Thracians, a label that they attributed to all non-Greeks who neither spoke nor understood the Greek language. Alexander’s Macedonian Army was not a “Greek army” as some modern writers have erroneously claimed, nor the Macedonian conquest of Asia was a “Greek conquest”. The fact is that not one ancient writer has called the Macedonian empire “Greek” or the Macedonian army and conquest “Greek”, but specifically Macedonian. When Rome clashed with Macedonia, the Macedonians were ordered by the Romans to evacuate from the whole of Greece and withdraw to Macedonia. They were hated by the Greeks ever since Philip II defeated the Greeks at Chaeronea in 338 BC and brought Greece to its kneel, and the Greeks fought fiercely, first on the side of the Persians and later on the side of the Romans to expel the Macedonians from their country. Too late would they realize that the Macedonian occupation would only be replaced by the Roman. In between the Greeks fought many unsuccessful wars against the Macedonians to drive them out of Greece, among which the Lamian War is the most famous. It should be noted that the Lamian War was triggered by the death of Alexander the Great, which encouraged the Greeks to rebel.

Ancient_Tribes_thumb[6]

About Alex Imreh

http://www.aleximreh.ro http://www.facebook.com/alex.imreh 0742-669918
This entry was posted in Etnogenesis, OldEurope and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

7 Responses to Eupedia / Maciamo : Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

  1. Arthas says:

    The Messapi were the inhabitants of the Salento peninsula. Why in the latest map this population is classified as Dauni and Peucezi?

  2. Macedonian says:

    Macedonians were a Greek tribe that spoke a North-West dialect of Greek. They were considered barbarians only politically, not racially

    • stefco says:

      Sorry, but Ancient Macedonians weren’t a Greek tribe. They have bigger similarities with Thracians and Illyrians than by Greeks.

  3. Historian says:

    Ancient Macedonians were a branch of the Dorian race ,, that in itself ,, makes them Greeks .
    They spoke no other language THAN GREEK and they had the same religion as the rest of Greece.
    The above ,, is well attested by countless ancient writers, as well as modern Anthropologists .
    The mention about Macedonians placing garrisons in Greek city’s is true ,,, but ? By the same token ,,, Athenians did the same when they were masters of Creece , Spartans and Thebans did the same later ,, Macedonians simply fallowed the example set by Athens ,Sparta , Thebes , not because they were not Greeks , but mainly for political considerations

  4. phill says:

    http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=197489&st=0 three pages maybe understand better when we talk about Egyptian we mean the rulling elite not the indigenous people Egypt was clear separate from the elite and the inhabitants and from 2 different rulling elite two states in the neilus river connect at elite level and commercial traders

  5. The Dorians are the Almanim they extended from the alps the Mountain of Job to the Balkans the Mountains of Shibathmo: the Almanim are the sons of Elishah or Helios or Helenus the son of Javan the progenitor of the Anatolian and Aegean Ionians the same as Helenic Greeks and the same as the Wilusa the Trojans and Dardani: the Dorians the spear of the Helenic came and attacked the Mycenae in revenge for their conquest of the Brethren the Trojans and Dardani; ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO CORESPOND MY E-MAIL: fafdc51@gmail.com

  6. Ryan says:

    R1b most likely came from basque country in spain.france after the last glacial maximum when northern europe was basically covered by an ice sheet. hablo I was in bulgaria/albania as well and migrated up to sweden after the ice sheet melted.

    See Stephen Oppenheimer’s work on the subject.

    The history of eurasia and it’s populations compared to it’s genetics is far more complicated than currently accepted.

    Indo-European languages probably penetrated europe through culture in many different directions and spread through r1b with diffusion with pre-indo european languages.

    I see IE coming from both the eastern steppes and coming from anatolia. These two locations are the mostly origin of IE, which is up for debate which came first.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s